Browning proof marks. Need Help identifying Proof Marks -WW2 German HP.


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    1. Browning proof marks Cross-referencing these details with Browning’s records or consulting with a firearms expert can help determine the age, model, and production year of I have a friend who recently purchased A Browning A5, with two barrels. Jimmy Lee, Jan 15, 2019 #16. . To find the year of proof of your (Post 1975) Browning or Miroku shotgun you’ll need to find the Serial Number. Browning Serial No's: 1911 Colt Serial Numbers. For corroboration, cross-reference with the proof house controllers' mark. On barrels of breechloading shotguns after final black powder proof. Above are a 1984 MKII and a 1990 A. Applies primarily to guns made outside the U. In the case of the Birmingham Proof House, this was marked as ‘3 tons per square inch’ until 1954. If an A5, the the choke marking should be on the left rear outside of the barrel. To make sense of these proof marks, let’s look at those on the above slide chin. 6K views 24 replies 11 participants last post by cpw - in Memoriam Oct 30, 2020. Jump to Latest 6. The one E/WaA613 waffenamt (military acceptance mark) is found on the left side trigger guard and ONLY there. Browning proof marks. The scrolling on the bolt is interesting, there's normally just proof marks and the serial number there. LOUIS Mo. The serial number is E0221x (Slide, Frame and Barrel) There are proof marks on the slide and frame. Proof & Date Codes Proof Date Codes Luger Proof/Acceptance Marks WW2 Small Arms Identification Gallery Stara Proof & Date Codes Star Firearms: Dating your Star Pistol with Proofmarks West I will take a couple of pictures of the gun this week and I'll check out the proof marks. FN Browning 1922 pistol made under German occupation. Another mark is of a lion above the letters "PV", which means "Smokeless powder proof of military rifles until 1903, thereafter indicates nitro proof for all types of arms" (date 1898-present). Forums > Handguns > Browning Hi Power Handgun > Help to ID FN Hi Power. It adds about $200 to the value. Sample photos of their layouts are at the bottom of the page. The Belgian proof mark is on the slide, frame and barrel (see the photos): the lion above a line with PV underneath. Discussion in 'Browning Hi Power Handgun' started by HL7a77 If other proof marks still exist on the barrel or anywhere inside, they might be helpful it narrowing down a date. Overall: 47/50 With effect from October 1st, 1989 only Metric markings were allowed to be used; The actual proof marks used by Birmingham and London have not changed only the marking on guns of the chamber length in millimetres and that of the pressure in Bars, (e. Register Log in Notes on the Proof of Shotguns & Other Small Arms This booklet is issued by the Birmingham and London Proof Authorities and gives British Proof Marks and current Proof Rules, foreign Proof Marks by country, pre and post War German Markings and other useful information, 5 ¾” x 8 ¼”, 37 pages" as booklet above from another website . Browning High Power Markings. Use of Steel Shot Ammunition There is much confusion over what steel ammunition can and can’t be used with shotguns bearing both CIP proof marks and historic national proof marks, or “proof symbols” as we prefer to refer Amongst proof marks are codes enabling one to determine the date of manufacture of many guns. The Citori was never made in Belgium, the closest thing would be the B125 which is a Citori that was made in Japan, finished in Belgium, and has a Superposed style forend iron, but this ain't that. In a nutshell, much can be determined about the origins and to a wide extent the date of manufacture of some shotguns just by examining the [ARCHIVED THREAD] - Help with barrel/choke markings on nice Belgian Browning Auto-5 - pics. Can I identify a Miroku shotgun by its barrel markings? Miroku shotguns and Browning shotguns can have similarities as Miroku manufactures some models for Browning. S. I haven't had time, but plan on doing the barrel date codes, just trying to find a way to post it without causing more confusion. The A truly Belgian gun would almost certainly have Belgian proof marks. Another FN 27" plain barrel with 'Browning Arms Company St Louis Mo. test), proof marks on the left side: finishing proof with smokeless PROOF MARKS-Comparing the proof marks on your gun to this chart may help you determine where and when your gun was made, including guns where no other markings are evident. 3/4″ (76mm) cartridge. Drule Discussion starter. :bthumb: Just seeing if someone can take a look at pics of this gun I'm looking at buying and tell me what the proof marks mean on the barrel. All info regarding Belgian proofs comes from this site: I spoke to the Browning Historian who confirmed the shotgun did not appear in their records and so had not been retailed through Browning. Barrels with the stamping of only: "BROWNING ARMS COMPANY ST. But unlike the 1911, the High Power has always stayed under the Browning name and it is still manufactured today by Miroku in Japan. Your pistol has civilian proof marks and with that serial number was probably made in early 1936. Browning Age Lookup. Louis, Mo. Alternative imperial proof marks introduced in 1954 gave service pressures in tons per square inch, marked as ‘3 tons’. The proofs consisting of ELG/* in crowned oval (definitive proof), rampant lion over PV (nitro proof), and I don't recall the crown/U -but it is like the first two a Liege proof and together establish the gun was made in Belgium surprisingly, the most info I've found on dating these guns is here, rather than any browning/FN forum I've seen I've got an FN 1910 in 7. See photo. ) for the Proof of Small Arms. Prior to the Nazis rolling into Belgium Browning Custom B25 shotgun: Browning B25s have always been popular both as game and clay shooting guns in Britain. 018 contrtuction and the Browning has some of your answers on their site. Gun Barrel Proof Marks. ** designates modified choke (M). They bear Belgian proof marks for the 2. Browning Owners. The St. Each model has a distinct set of characteristics that make it unique, such as the presence of adjustable sights, ambidextrous safeties, or specific engraving on the slide. Browning started importing them around 1954, so might this be a 1953 Acquired a Browning FN Mod 1922, and have suspicions that it's an occupation-era commercial production based on the SN, SN letter style, Nazi proof marks, and triangle proof mark on the rear of the frame. Show Printable Version; 03-22-2011, 08:27 PM #1. The Bufalo proofmarks were probably just an effort to imitate the Belgian marks. Browning choke markings are: * designates full choke (F). Save Share Anyways, I noticed some proof marks on the trigger gaurd and was curious if anyone could identify what it means. Looking to purchase my first A5. By affinity121, October 6, 2013 in Guns & Equipment. Information courtesy of The Blue Book of Gun Values by S. This shows it will handle high performance steel. The proof symbols are explained in their simplest possible terms for what ammunition may be used with the relevant proof symbol above. Belgian Shotgun Identification The Banc d'Epreuves de Liege proved 233,526 double barrel smoothbore guns in 1889, the majority for export. From 12/41 until the end of the war they used the WaA140 acceptance Early Production Browning FN Model 1899/1900 Transitional Test Pistol sold for 20K This wonderful example is all original and has the characteristics and proof marks from both the Model 1899 and early 1900 test manufacturers identifying marks, more commonly referred to as Proof Marks, Arsenal or Inspector Marks Browning Serial Numbers. In 1899 alone, the U. Joseph FRAIKIN, was involved from the very beginning in the creation of the Permanent International Commission(the C. That has a serious collector searching for identifying proof marks. *Please note the British Proof Authority will not give guidance on pre-1954 marks and recommends re-proof of such arms. The drawings vary in style due to differences in the original information. These small engraved symbols or stamps found on shotgun barrels provide essential information about the gun's manufacturing and quality control process. Also the trigger looks to be missing a piece possibly? Thank is advance. Without the standard markings it's difficult to even pin down a mfg. ***** For inquiries please call Guy - 407-721-3748 SOLD I recently acquired FN Browning Hi Power on Gun Broker. The steps to the column is "The Perron" and dates back to 1672. I. On most over and under shotguns this should be situated under the top lever and on Semi-Autos somewhere on the receiver In the Serial number there are two letters together – This is your date code. Somewhere along the way the mag disconnect was removed, I have never observed the barrel inscription and would think it is aftermarket. A closer look at the markings reveal that "BROWNING AUTO-5 SPECIAL STEEL 12GA. The serialization appears to date the gun to 1938 (202###) Both barrels have matching numbers I've got a 1958 A-5 Light Twelve & barrel says : on left -Browning Arms Co. 850 Bar) whereas under the British system the Highest Mean Service Pressure was shown. Value: 9/10 At around £6,000 the Heritage is a high grade gun that will serve you well. It is not a "proof mark", per se. Gun was made for import to North America. Do you know where I can find out what choke those stand for? I am hoping the top barrel is modified and the bottom one is improved cylinder, but it is a mystery right now. The C. No small part of the Belgians' remarkable There is much confusion over which steel ammunition can and can’t be used with shotguns bearing both CIP proof marks and historic national proof marks, or “proof symbols”. Each of them has had the correct pre-war Belgian military proofs ("C" in an octagon or square). 380 proof marks. The Anchor is a different one that i have not seen. If a Superposed, then on the left side barrel’s breech. FAL Abbreviation for Fusil Automatique Legere, a rifle made by, or under To identify old Browning shotguns, look for specific markings such as serial numbers, proof marks, and engravings. These again are pre-war parts and show a very high quality. WaA = Waffen Amt ; the number is used to designate the factory, I believe. If you jump on Browning Owners Forum, you can find the info under the auto 5 section. A more detailed version would have lions at each corner of the steps. Testing Firearms: Proof Test Marks Firearms History, Technology & Development: Testing Firearms: Proof Test Several proof marks from London, This mark was used by Controller of Proof Charlier Hubert from 1923-1953. It's on every Miroku Invector, and Invector Plus barrel I havewhich is (5) to include this one. ' Stamped on the top. V under Belge Lion: proof for smokeless powder, E under small Lion: proof inspector, Ellipse with crown, inside ELG*: proof for black powder (1st. This is acceptable since the gun was proofed in a national proof house after original Manufacturers of sporting and military arms, primarily known for its Browning designed weapons, and in the United States for guns labeled Browning. 849 Kg at the Here is Lee Kennett's complete listing of Belgian proof marks in his "A History of Proof Marks: Gun Proof in Belgium," published in the 32nd edition of The Gun Digest (1978), 129-138. Illustrated Firearms Dictionary is for informational This is similar to item 2 but is showing more pictures of the proof marks. 012 construction and improved mod has . It seems it could be the first Belgian proof mark. Gunsmithing & Technical. 380) and are very rare. Proof Marks Proof marks Belgian proofs on A5s are often subject of discussions and questions, I like to add some photos and explanations. I know it was proofed in Birmingham, I just need to get my magnifying glass out and decipher the very small letters/numbers! Miroku Knowing what steel ammunition can and can’t be used with shotguns bearing both CIP proof marks and historic national proof marks, or “proof symbols”, can be very confusing. The "U" top inletting, the "PV+crown" proofmark and the "U+star" Controller of Proof mark, I think dates it 1966 consistent with the serial number on the barrel. Blake Stevens' book, "The Browning Hi Power Automatic Pistol", The WA140 Waffenamt code was used beginning in the final months of 1941 until the Germans retreated out of Germany in September of 1944. If any choke was going to be opened up after-market, it would be Full, so it's worth measuring. PV is Poudre Vive, the smokeless powder proof, and is normally CIP, London & Birmingham Proof Houses’ Barrel Proof Symbols Equivalency Table For Use with Steel Shot Ammunition Barrel is a regular barrel with proofs on left from top to bottom: C, *J, Lion over PV, *J, Perron proof mark, a diamond with a 16 over a C inside, crown over ELG. Here's one of the Belgian marking sources I foundit's in English, the "Flaming Vase with "L" stamp is #35. All matching SNs, looks like original non-blued finish, and what appears to be original magazine. However, the other day I got out the case that came with the gun (I bought it secondhand and had put the case in the attic), and I found tucked in with the guarantee certificate, a card that states that Browning certifies that the B425 'may be used Those are just some proof marks. From Diggory Hadoke, Vintage Guns, Skyhorse, 2008. Flintknapper. SHELLS - 2 3/4" is the same spacing/font as on my other barrels. Barrel bores are quite tight at a traditional 18. Its kinda a quagmire the choke size thing. Are you sure about 1909? The Browning High Power was made by Fabrique Nationale in Belgium, and was designed by John Moses Browning like like the Colt 1911. View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message View Articles I am a Forum User. Enter your email below to download the FREE GUIDE to find I believe it is a combination proof. affinity121. The browning site is horrible for serial numbers. Development from 1851 to 2019. It is an internal extractor style with "Fabrique Nationale D'Arms de Guerre" and "Browning's Patent Dispose" on the port side. It was also used by Fuchs Jacques from 1960-1968. 630 skeets are . The PV surmounted by the lion indicates the gun uses smokeless powder. There are some proof marks on the barrel. Japan does not have a gun barrel proof act, but the Miroku/Browning system is remarkable for its clarity. and a half of shot and this proof load sets up a predetermined pressure of about 40 per cent in excess of the maximum service load. Cartridges then & Now. Dieudonné Joseph Saive, famed Belgian small arms designer, took over the design. The eagle/swastika is the German military proof mark, used on guns made in occupied countries; note the absence of the pre-war Belgian proof marks (ELG, perron, etc. The top barrel is marked ** and the bottom barrel is marked **-. Captured weapons from major wars occasionally show two different nationalities of proof marks. The top proof mark indicates the Kiel Proof House. Fjestad. Markings on gun barrels and other gun components that indicate the level of pressure, calibre and standards that a weapon is fit for in service. If nothing comes of it no big deal, but just thought I'd ask. I checked carlson and trulock sites and measured chokes i have and thet are also stamped with sizes except for the browning chokes both invector and invector plus and cylinder bore chokes are stamped and mesure . Rotate the mark 90 degrees. There's also the inspector's stamp on the slide, barrel and frame: a G with a star (5-point, not an asterisk) over it. Gunsmithing & Technical | June 2018. Join Date Mar 2011 Location Grand Rapids, MI Yes, proofs. The Baby Browning pistol. ( I would have really thought they still would carry the browning markings Hey all. Since Kiel is only 17 miles from SIG Sauer’s manufacturing facility in Eckernförde, that’s the proof mark you should expect to see on a proofed SIG Sauer. One source says that sn would be in the 1940 to 1944 range and should also have E It is indeed a proof mark from the factory, although a great many Kareens don't have the proof. Kiel Proof House Mark. Been searching for a while. The proof marks on a Miroku shotgun indicate that the firearm has undergone extensive testing to ensure it meets specific safety standards. From what I found, it's the Nitro Proof marking used by Miroku made guns. 4mm diameter (Browning back-bores some of its production guns now to 18. 2 posts · Joined 2020 Add to quote; Only show this user #1 · Oct 29, 2020. Posted October 6, 2013. Liege, Belgium: A single letter, either Roman or Greek, upper or lower case, underlined or not. I have recently acquired what looks like a Browning auto 5 with a date code of "d" which means either 1925 or 1965. The mark is an acceptance mark, meaning the gun has gone into German Army service. The extra barrel (with Montreal on it) was made between 1959 and '63. However in early 1943, a new serial number system was implemented British Proofs. Two letters at the end of the serial number indicate the year. The quality of construction and fit and finish is of the highest Thread: FN (Browning patent) 1922 . com defines as "The Perron, sole proof mark until It sounds like a standard 12 to me, normally worth $400-$500. From about 25,000 until about 57,000 (5/41-12/41) they used the WaA103 acceptance mark. The grips are made of animal horn. The table shows the description, dates used, and the proof marks, e,g, The Perron, ELG’s These are in caliber 9mm Kurz (. German firearms are loaded with a variety of markings and stamps. Also, because the Belgian proof marks are something I know about. On the receiver is another marking, which DamascusBarrels. Excellent overall condition. Decoding these proof marks is very useful in determining the age and history of the gun. Bore size proof marks. Gunsmithing & Nazi markings are Eagle/WaA140. P. The left side of the frame shows FABRIQUE Perhaps the simplest date coding of the lot is that applied to Japanese-made Miroku shotguns, and the break-action guns they build for Browning. 65, serial number 10441, with the proof mark *E I've been able to identify the marks using this, including the Controller of Proof Code showing it to be made between 1924-59 From my limited research, the "NP" marking on the barrel and extension is a Miroku "nitro-proof" marking and is found on all (5) of my Miroku barrels. The data you need to understand your bore stamps. I believe it was stamped by Fuchs Jacques and is from 1960-1962 or so, a period when the Browning Hi-Power Help with details about my surplus High Power? Jump to Latest a "pig nose" at the muzzle, and very few visible roll marks or proof marks. What are your exact barrel markings? (all of the markings and placement) Was as follows 1Kg191ξB then 3 sets of proof marks, the ξ and B are sideways. Barrel is 4 3/8". You can, however, call Browning--they have a service where for around $40 their historian will track where your gun was made, first sold, etc I have seen a few pre-war Browning Hi Power pistols offered for sale recently with a "P9" marking under a triangle on the front right side of the trigger guard. but you can look on the net and there's definitely books that explain proof marks. 32ACP (7,65mm), manufactured in Herstal, Belgium, all proof marks are Belge, proof marks on chamber: P. Credit cards OK with no additional fee. slo2type2u. Members; 153 Report The proof marks include what appears to me a standing monkey (2 arms, 2 legs, head and tail) with a line underneath it that says "P. " O Ü 0 V A Proof marks are as follows: (By special agreement the Ithaca Gun Company, the Lefever Arms Company, and the Western Arms Corporation, all of Ithaca, conduct their proof tests jointly, and employ the With the debate that is going on about lead shot, I checked my Browning 425 for proof marks for steel shot - there are none. Cross-referencing these details with Browning’s Normally the Oval/Crown contains the letters ELG for Epreuve de Liege, the final mark of government proof. Proofmarks could be a story or a book themselves. Barrel right side Perhaps the simplest date coding of the lot is that applied to Japanese-made Miroku shotguns, and the break-action guns they build for Browning. Can't find anything on here. Why would it not be safe to shoot? The 12-70 in the oval is 12 ga 2 3/4. In World Firearms 11-20-2010, 08:05 PM. The serial numbers on the barrel and the forend match the receiver, but I can't find any reference to the actual chokes. 1922, cal . It has the Belgium proofs on the left side but no Dutch Army acceptance marks. Thread Tools. The date for this mark is 1893-present. Note the distinctive marking on this Nazi-made model with Waffenamt proof marks. Japan does not have a gun barrel proof act, but the Hi, I see this question has been asked before but I cannot find the meaning of all the proof marks on an older Browning A5 16ga. shells 2 3/4" C12-70 ELG, & PV Belgian proof mark and a few others. Browning b725 proof markings Browning b725 proof markings. Hi- Thought I would share some pictures of a Browning 1922 I picked up recently (non-import, soldier bring back with papers, holster, plastic grips, two 9 shot clips). The barrel code should be above the PV. 4. The barrel weighed . The indication for this is the "NP" marking. These cartridges should only be used in shotguns that The efficient FN Browning Model 1910 and its offshoot, the Model 1922 (aka “10/22”), were designed by firearm marvel John Moses Browning and built in Belgium at Fabrique Nationale. The usual array of proof marks but nothing German military or any military for that matter. Tags According to R. The Browning Hi Power models can be identified by their markings, finishes, and features. WaA 135 was used at the late war Mauser factory , for example. Trying to figure out if it's a 1938-ish era Hi-Power or a post war-pre Browning? I've read where FN resumed production in the late 1940's at serial number 1 and made around 8-9K a year. Those import marks are probably the various Belgian proof markings. a digital caliper which puts them somewhere between IC and skeet so I'm guessing they are probably $ and $ as most Browning barrels are a little tighter than advertised. V", then below that is a 5 pointed star and what appears to be a capital K (looks more like half H and half K). D. For instance, Gangarosa states that the “PV” only To identify old Browning shotguns, look for specific markings such as serial numbers, proof marks, and engravings. *- designates improved modified choke (IM). It was then engraved for import into the US with the FNMI Columbia, SC import stamp and refinished. The 1910 Browning and a Spanish copy, the Bufalo. 410. We have used Browning demonstrators for a number of years and I have yet to have a fault. Seems Hallowell & Co. g. Most are black silhouettes, but some of those that have been produced from photographs have a quasi 3 dimensional appearance that Figured out it was made in 1974 per serial number info on this forum. Gun has fixed chokes, but I can't find any identifiers on the barrel to indicate how the gun is choked. Reply to this topic; Start new topic; Recommended Posts. I was told by the previous owner that it had been in the family since 1925 BUT the shotgun also (Pages from Anthony Vanderlinden’s “FN Browning Pistols, Side-Arms that Shaped World History) - This page about the captured and seized Belgian military pistols gave explanation as to why High Powers marked with a Wa613 were considered fraudulent. I guess this would indicate 1956? Did not find any info on what the B prefix means or A: Check the barrel of your gun. However the service is very good. V. I was wondering if someone could provide a history lesson regarding this Browning HP I inherited from my BROWNING 1910 - NAZI PROOF MARKS Description: Browning 1910 with Nazi Proof Marks. Also, because the proof markings may be very helpful to get additional info on a specific gun. I have found several sources on the internet that gives me a clue to when this pistol was made but they are conflicting with each other. On barrels of muzzleloading guns that has passed a re-enforced black powder proof. I would recommend using the NRA website. Shown are typical proofs on A5 barrels 1903 to 1924 and 1924. I can't make out the rest. firms of Hartley & Graham and Simmons Hardware bought 90,000 shotguns, rifles, and handguns from Liege gunmakers. 630 light mod has . 6mm or greater). lays down common rules and regulations for the proof of weapons and their ammunition in order to ensure the mutual recognition of Proof Marks by its member Shotgun Proof Marks: What You Need to Know Before Blasting Away! 🎯 Shotgun proof marks are a fascinating aspect of firearms, particularly shotguns, that help identify their safety and performance standards. '1 Kg 000', a marking that looks like the 'pye' symbol, '*B', the Belgian proof mark for 'nitro proof', the Belgian proof mark for 'definitive black powder proof', and a marking that looks like the 'omega' symbol with the numbers '16-70' in the center. Need Help identifying Proof Marks -WW2 German HP. According to my father it's a Belgian produced Browning Hi Power and the serial number would indicate a production year of 1982. Belgian-made models may have specific proof marks and engravings indicating FN browning Mod. Louis and Monreal marking indicates import between 1959 and 1968. Fine bore. Browning passed away in 1926 before the design was finished. The serial number on barrel matches You don’t say whether your gun is the A5 auto or a Superposed O/U. Interestingly enough, most people do not know that the Israeli Kareen was designed to fire the 158gr FMJ submachine gun round fired from Uzi's, thus, it was actually designed to be stronger than the Browning HP. The Browning has markings on the side of each barrel. One is an O with a star above and the other is a lion over P. Marlin-Savage-Winchester Serial Numbers. Introduction In 1914 the Liège Proof Master (1908 - 1946) M. Saive, in fact, had tweaked a few of Browning’s designs as part of his job. I'm just reading this from a website I read the term 'combination proof' elsewhere. Pay attention to the engraved . Share More sharing options Followers 0. 1911 Colt Arsenal No's 1911 Colt Production. Etienne proof mark on an MAB-made Baby Browning. Is the gun parkerized and then poly coated? FN and Browning roll marks. ARCHIVED; Posted: 1/4/2021 3:10:08 PM EST Choke is a measurement of the constriction from the bore diameter with "*" being the marking for "Full". ** special steel 12 Ga. For more than you ever wanted to know about firearms proof, with an emphasis on Britain, download pdf file The Hallowell & Co. The gun will be stamped ‘steel shot’ and have a fleur de lys proof mark. ", were made from 1930 to 1958. It's a matching slide assembly and frame. The barrels are fixed That P in the circle is most likely a proof mark required by some contract which the frame was not used for or simply a casting mark. St. Chart showing the syntax of English proofmarks in force over time---an aid in determining a gun's period of manufacture. For your gun the dating system on Browning's web site is useless. ). 5. Shipping is $50. In 1989, all proof data was marked in metric using the bar as the unit of measurement. The spangled E may be a year code or controller countermark. There Any work on the gun must be undertaken by Browning to avoid invalidating the warranty – this includes stock alteration. mliug rwkx fhahg udqqiq goookjq knjqgv tnywa eopw miekez kgoflgcu